Should evangelicals support warmists who mock their core beliefs?
Click for “Oklahoma Scientists, Christians, Urge Congress To Act On Climate Change.”
Click for “Parody mocks Google’s support of climate deniers: We’re not evil, just ‘f*cking stupid’“.
Amen for these people well versed in science (agreeing with 97% of scientists) and well grounded in their faith as Christians, answering their call to speak the truth. We should all be so bold.
Which ones?
You can’t refute.
That is always the problem for those defending the fake fisics memes, they can never provide any empirical physics to show the AGW Greenhouse Effect claims about matter and energy are real world. Have you ever asked yourself why you can’t find physical explanations that make sense in the claims?
Doesn’t it bother you that you have been conned? Doesn’t it bother you that a generation has been educated to not understand why we have glass and film manufactured for windows to minimise entry of the real Sun’s direct heat and maximise entry of its visible light – to keep rooms cool and save on air conditioning costs..?
Doesn’t it bother you that this generation could never create such solutions, because they don’t know the difference between the energies gathered from the Sun in photovoltaic and thermal panels?
Up to you, continue to live in a imaginary world with a cold star of 6000°C for your Sun or step through the looking glass back into the real world where the Sun is millions of degrees centigrade and we can feel its heat directly.
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
George Orwell
Not all electromagnetic energy is the same and they do not all create heat on being absorbed.
A gamma ray is not a radio wave, that is why they have been given different names. They have different properties and processes, they impact on matter in ways unique to them. A gamma ray is even tinier than uv and visible, a radio wave the size of a house and several football fields long – a radio wave can travel through stone walls, visible can’t.. Some share certain characteristic so they are put in sets, categorised, Heat and Light, Thermal and Reflective, Ionising and Non-Ionising are such categories.
C.O.D. physics Science dealing with properties and interactions of matter and energy.
Whoever put these Greenhouse Effect fake fisics into the eduction system to promote the AGW scare they have effectively wiped out the gains in science knowledge we have made in the last few centuries. It has been through widening the reach of education and better and faster communication that we have made such enormous breakthroughs in science, in understanding the differences in properties and interactions of the world around us of which we are intrinsically part. Building on work done by our great scientists of the past, by observation and testing, striving for accuracy.
That is a marvellous thing, achieved because the principle of science, of natural philosophy, is that knowledge should be shared so others in the present and future could build on it.
Philosophy, the love of wisdom. Science, the love of wisdom of the natural world.
You know, there’es a word for your kind, Sophomore. Soph as in Sophocles, More as in moron. I’m not going to refute your pack of lies, half-truths, and manhandled facts. Since you have read Mr. Watt’s summaries, far better written and researched than anything I could do, and refuse to get it, I give up. I have better things to do with my life than try and teach the willfully ignorant.
Physics is at once more complicated than anyone is willing to confront, but far simpler than anyone fears. You aren’t understanding the simplicity. There’s no difference between ionizing and non-ionizing radiation aside from its frequency. They are still photons. Your different kinds of light having different properties is just as scientific as Dungeons and Dragons’ schools of magic. Your questions and challenges are equivalent to asking the chemical formulation of the soul to support homeopathy. The question is nonsensical, doesn’t address the point, and even if an answer was forthcoming, would be irrelevant to the matter at hand.
Ben, don’t encourage him any more.
A p.s. to the AGW Greenhouse Effect energy budget using real world measurements of longwave infrared pretending it is “backradiation by greenhouse gases from the atmosphere under TOA”:
http://scienceofdoom.com/2010/07/17/the-amazing-case-of-back-radiation/
“What this means is that solar radiation and terrestrial/atmospheric radiation can be easily distinguished. Conventionally, climate science uses “shortwave” to refer to solar radiation – for radiation with a wavelength of less than 4μm – and “longwave” to refer to terrestrial or atmospheric radiation – for wavelengths of greater than 4μm.
This is very handy. We can measure radiation in the wavelengths > 4μm even during the day and know that the source of this radiation is the surface (if we are measuring upward radiation from the surface) or the atmosphere (if we are measuring downward radiation at the surface). Of course, if we measure radiation at night then there’s no possibility of confusion anyway”
Only the confusion created by having excised the direct heat longwave infrared from the Sun during the day..
What you need to bear in mind is that no such thing as “backradiation” can be found in any real science literature:
http://claesjohnson.blogspot.ie/2012/02/can-spencer-describe-greenhouse-effect.html
TheJollyGreenMan is well worth a read. Spencer understands zilch about heat transfer, but the problem is as I have described, much simpler, one doesn’t have to know the 2nd Law to see how the AGW GHE energy budget is created by faking very basic physics.
The difference between visible light from the Sun which is not thermal and the invisible longwave infrared which we feel as heat because it is thermal.
The rest is spotting what other sleights of hand were used in the manufacture of the GHE – if you are interested.., pick a meme, any meme, and you can be sure it is manipulating real physics by misattributing terms, taking out whole properties and processes, playing with word meanings, like “absorbed”
“Carbon dioxide accumulates for hundreds and thousands of years in the atmosphere and acts as a blanket trapping heat” – only by removing all the real gas properties of nitrogen, oxygen and carbon dioxide and substituting the imaginary massless hard dot of nothing “ideal gas”..
So this fantasy world of the AGW Greenhouse Effect has taken out the whole real gas atmosphere, which is why they don’t have convection, and subsituted empty space for it. They have no sound in their world..
BenofHouston – I can only urge you to read through it carefully..
Traditional science does not teach that our Sun is a cold star 6000°C – that is nonsense, that is around the temperature of our Earth’s interior..
But AGWScienceFiction teaches this for its Greenhouse Effect Illusion, so it can pretend that we get no direct radiant heat from the Sun. Direct radiant heat is not visible light.
And the Sun is not a laser, oh gosh, maybe it is, it has cut right through the Earth which is now spinning around in pieces.
AGWSF has taken out the direct electromagnetic wavelength of heat, thermal infrared aka longwave infrared, from its Greenhouse Effect energy budget, KT97 and ilk, so that it can use real world measurements of this from the Sun and claim it comes from “backradiation by greenhouse gases from the atmosphere under TOA”.*
That is the scam. That is why they then had to say visible light does the heating. But visible light works on the electronic transition level, of electrons, it is not capable of moving whole molecules into vibration, which is what it takes to heat matter.
Rub your hands together, that is mechanical energy moving the molecules of your skin into vibration, internal kinetic energy, aka heat. It takes the bigger more powerful heat energy from the Sun to heat matter of land an water – without which intense heating at the equator we would not have our great wind systems.
It does not take a scientist to see the trick here, nor does it take advanced maths, all it takes is the normal ability to see the magicians sleights of hand, when explained.
Please read the NASA quote I posted, this is still taught in traditional physics but has been taken out of the general education system – the heat we feel from the Sun is thermal infrared, longwave infrared. This is the electromagnetic wavelength of heat.
We call it thermal infrared because, since Herschel’s amazing discovery, we now know that infrared is divided into thermal and non-thermal – near infrared is not thermal, it is not hot.
1% of near infrared is included in the “Solar shortwave in” of the GHE, a bit of shortwave uv but mainly it is visible.
The visible light we get direct from the Sun is absorbed by the electrons of the molecules of nitrogen and oxygen in the atmosphere, this is on a much smaller scale than molecular vibrational. These electrons are briefly energised by the light and move in their orbits, and, always wanting to come back to ground state they do and in doing so emit the same energy they took in – blue light being more energetic, more nervy because smaller than the longer visibles, gets bounced around more – hence our blue sky.
Visible light from the Sun is non-ionising, which means that it is too weak to move the electron out of its orbit, as does some uv.
Water is a transparent medium for visible light, which means it is not absorbed even on the electron level, but transmitted through unchanged. We would have no carbon life form if the ocean was absorbing visible light and being heated by it..
In case you or others reading don’t know, visible light mainly blue and red is used in photosynthesis by plants, converting light energy to chemical energy, sugars, not converting to heat energy, not in raising the temperature of the plant by moving its molecules into vibration.
Visible light energy from the Sun is used in sight, by converting to electrical impulses, nerve impulses.
The AGWScienceFiction meme that “all electromagnetic energy is the same and all converts to heat on being absorbed” is false, real world physics shows this.
The GHE energy budget of KT97 and ilk has another trick up its sleeve – it has given the solar constant figure for its “shortwave in at TOA”, and from this it takes off some en route by reflection and so on to then say what is left is being “absorbed at the surface converting to heat” – now look at that cartoon – there is more longwave infrared heat upwelling than energy coming in at the surface.
See if you can work out what is happening when I tell you that in real world physics that solar constant refers to the amount of heat energy from the Sun heating the surface, measured at the surface, it is not a TOA figure.
Ask any applied scientist who has to know such things, working on building materials in hot countries for example.
Radiant heat from the Real Sun is longwave infrared, thermal infrared, which we feel as heat directly from our Sun as we absorb it in our skin where it moves the molecules into vibration and which we feel as heat internally as it penetrates several inches and heats up the water in us.
The GHE is a comic cartoon, but the joke is on us if we don’t make an effort to see the tricks by comparing it with real physics.
As it stands, there is no heat from the Sun at all in the Greenhouse Effect – no direct radiant heat which is the Sun’s thermal energy in transfer by radiation, and shortwaves are not physically capable of moving whole molecules into vibration, which is what it takes to heat them up.
But anyway, the AGWSF world’s pretend “Earth” revolves around a cold star only 6000°C.
Our real Star which we call the Sun, is millions of degrees centigrade. It radiates out a huge amount of heat energy.
Surely you can see just from that the GHE is nonsense?
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*There is a recent example of AGW arguing for this “backradiation by greenhouse gases” while using real world measurements of longwave infrared direct from the Sun:
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/07/19/friday-funny-reflections-on-the-greenhouse-effect/#comment-1368671
Gary Hladik says: “The real-world effect of CO2 and other so-called greenhouse gases can be measured from the ground. The downwelling IR (DWIR) at Billings, OK, for example, varied around 300+ watts per square meter October 3-5, 1993. Not what I would call “negligible””
Think about this – our Sun is millions of degrees hot on its surface, the thin visible light atmosphere surrounding this is only 300 miles wide – do you really think this has the power to stop millions of degrees of real heat being radiated out?
An incandescent light bulb emits around 5% visible light and 95% heat, longwave infrared. Is the visible light stopping this longwave infrared heat? Has the heat stopped radiating by visible light being produced?
Anyway, please read the NASA quote, which was recently removed from its main site, but kept in circulation by someone who didn’t want traditional physics to disappear..
This is well known, used to be well known, traditional teaching of the differences between thermal and non-thermal – nothing to do with source as the AGWSF meme brainwashes, it is a description of the wavelength. Thermal comes from the Greek thermos heat, means ‘of heat’, thermal infrared is the wavelength of heat.
We now know that heat from the Sun comes to us in longwave infrared, not in near infrared and not in shortwaves visible or uv.
That, is simply a physical fact.
According to the theologians of Jethro Tull, “He who made kittens put snakes in the grass.”
Myrrh, I read about a quarter way through your rambling post of utter nonsense before giving up. There’s nothing magical about anything. You are right that visible light isn’t thermal energy. It’s electromagnetic radiation.When it strikes your skin and is absorbed, it does actually convert into heat. Otherwise, a laser (which is a beam of light at a single wavelength) couldn’t burn anything. A photon is a photon. That’s all there is. If it strikes something then it will either be reflected or absorbed. If it is absorbed, then it will heat the surface. The only question concerning wavelength is whether this is sufficient to knock off an electron (photoelectric effect) and how much it gets heated.
I didn’t read any further. You try to decribe various things, and in such display a fundamental ignorance about the workings of the universe. I suggest that you read a basic book on physics.
Am I the only one who think that Jesus holding the velociraptor looks cute?
Many evangelicals are religiously conservative, most are socially conservative, and some are more Biblically fundamentalist than others. Evangelicals, like Catholics and Buddhists, have a range of beliefs and an evangelical may not hold literalist Biblical views. An evangelical Christian could well believe in evolution and global warming; global warming alarmists do not inherently attack the core of evangelical belief.
It is true that many alarmists are also agnostic or outright hostile to religion. You’d think that would make alliances difficult.
What will the Evangelicals do when they find out that the AGW Greenhouse Effect is the Great Delusion?
Introduced into the general education system to confuse the people with the scare of anthropogenic global warming and to dumb down basic science for the masses. A couple of posts I have recently made elsewhere:
The Great Delusion
AGW/CAGWs – how are you going to deal with this?
You have a cold 6000°C Star for a Sun calculated by planckians on the thin 300 mile wide atmosphere around the real Earth’s Sun, and so you say you get no direct longwave infrared heat from this.
That is not science.
That is fiction.
At some point you are going have to look that straight in the eye.
Sooner would be better than later for us oiks having to listen to and being penalised by your idiotic impossible claims for the properties and processes of our real world.
We, the oiks of this world, have a genuine grievance with you.
You are destroying our well being and dumbing down basic science for this and the next generation.
You are responsible for this scam because you continue to perpertrate the crime of imposing the faked fisics of this impossible world of AGW’s Greenhouse Effect onto us by claiming it is real.
It is a lie, a scam, a con, I can show you, and have shown you, some of the sleights of hand that went into creating it.
You have no excuse if you claim to be scientists to ignore the information I give from traditional well known up to date physics.
The AGW Greenhouse Effect energy budget claims that “visible light from the Sun heats the Earth’s surface land and water”.
Visible light from the real Sun cannot do this. It is impossible from the real world properties and processes of visible light from the real Sun.
The AGW Greenhouse Effect energy budget claims that “visible light from the Sun is what we feel as heat”.
We cannot feel visible light, or any of the shortwaves in the AGW GHE “shortwave in”, as heat. They are not hot. They are not thermal energies.
The AGW Greenhouse Effect energy budget claims that “no longwave infrared heat direct from the Sun gets through an invisible barrier at TOA”.
There is no “invisible barrier like the glass of a greenhouse at TOA” preventing the great direct thermal longwave infrared heat from our real millions of degree hot Sun from entering.
This direct radiant heat from our real millions of degree hot Star which is our Sun is what we feel as heat and which we feel heating us up inside and out. This is what raises our temperature and the temperature of land and water of the real Earth’s surface.
Your AGW Greenhouse Effect Sun of your COMIC cartoon energy budget of KT97 and ilk is fake.
FAKE.
Your AGW Greenhouse Effect comic cartoon energy budget claims we get no real direct radiant heat energy from the Sun because it uses the real longwave infrared heat measurements direct from the Sun to PRETEND that this comes from “backradiation by greenhouse gases from the atmosphere under TOA”
That is the scam.
There is no Greenhouse Effect of “backradiation by greenhouse gases”.
Traditional science, real physics, still teaches those not dumbed down by the fake AGW fictional fisics that the Heat energy we feel as heat direct from our real millions of degree hot Sun is longwave infrared, also known as thermal infrared because it is heat. It is the real Sun’s great thermal energy, heat energy, on the move to us in heat transfer by radiation.
Near infrared of the AGW GHE energy budget which gives 1% of its “shortwave in”, is not a thermal energy, we cannot feel it as heat and it cannot heat us up.
Your AGW Greenhouse Effect Sun is fake to create your fake “backradiation by greenhouse gases” claim.
You have changed the Sun!
You have dumbed down basic science for a generation.
If you continue to teach this then you are fully part and parcel of the con.
This is science fraud at the very least, at worst it is a fraud against the personal liberties and economic well being of the general population worldwide.
Traditional NASA teaching is still online, though your partners in this crime have removed it from the main NASA site.
I give it here again –
IF YOU MAKE A CLAIM TO BE REAL SCIENTISTS YOU CANNOT IGNORE THIS.
You are obligated as scientists to bring this to the attention of other scientists.
http://science.hq.nasa.gov/kids/imagers/ems/infrared.html
“Far infrared waves are thermal. In other words, we experience this type of infrared radiation every day in the form of heat! The heat that we feel from sunlight, a fire, a radiator or a warm sidewalk is infrared. The temperature-sensitive nerve endings in our skin can detect the difference between inside body temperature and outside skin temperature”
“Shorter, near infrared waves are not hot at all – in fact you cannot even feel them.”
Either traditional science is wrong here or you AGW/CAGWs are..
Who created the KT97 and ilk comic cartoons of “shortwave in longwave out”?
The oldest reference I can find is this from 1956:
http://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com/greenhouse+effect
“Greenhouse Effect
the atmosphere’s property of transmitting solar radiation while holding back terrestrial radiation, thereby contributing to the accumulation of heat by the earth. The atmosphere is comparatively quite transparent to shortwave solar radiation, which is almost entirely absorbed by the earth’s surface, since the albedo of the surface is generally low. The surface of the earth heats up by absorbing solar radiation and becomes a source of terrestrial, chiefly longwave, radiation. The atmosphere does not transmit this radiation very well and, in fact, almost completely absorbs it. Because of the greenhouse effect, when there is a clear sky only about 10–20 percent of the terrestrial radiation is able to pass through the atmosphere into outer space.
REFERENCE
Kondrat’ev, K. Ia. Luchistyi teploobmen v atmosfere. Leningrad, 1956.”
Do you really think the Soviets did not know traditional physics on this?
If the AGW Greenhouse Effect was real there would be no need to manipulate temperature records and all the other science frauds we have had inflicted on us.
https://sites.google.com/site/globalwarmingquestions/ipcc
http://notrickszone.com/2012/04/10/50-top-astronauts-scientists-engineers-sign-letter-claiming-giss-is-turning-nasa-into-a-laughing-stock/
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The basic physics of the Greenhouse Effect is faked.
“The theory that failed
It takes only one experiment to disprove a theory”.
The problem is the “Greenhouse Effect” ‘theory’.
It has never been shown to exist.
Real, empirically well tried and tested up to date modern physics as still traditionally taught shows this “GHE” is faked physics.
The -18°C comes from real physics and is the temperature of the Earth without any atmosphere at all, not the temperature without the AGWs “greenhouse gases” – compare with the Moon -23°C.
The real atmosphere of mainly nitrogen and oxygen, but minus water, think deserts, is 67°C.
It is the heavy real gas atmosphere of nitrogen and oxygen which is the real thermal blanket around the Earth preventing the extremes into cold and heat of the Moon.
The trace gas carbon dioxide is practically all hole in the atmosphere.
The AGW Greenhouse Effect has taken out the Water Cycle completely.
Real greenhouses both warm and cool.
Nitrogen and oxygen both warm and cool the Earth from the extreme temperatures as reached on the Moon without an atmosphere. Through the weight of its mass under gravity and by expanding or condensing when heated or cooled, in heat transfer by convection and convection currents, winds.
The GHE does not have rain in its Carbon Cycle.
This Greenhouse Effect is an illusion, there is no way your greenhouse gases raise the Earth’s temp 33°C.
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What would Jesus do?
Climate beliefs are more hard-core than any other. They promise the end of the world by 2050, 2010 at the latest. Rock on, guys.
Besides, none of that evangelical stuff does pays too well, while climatism is the road to superpower successfully tested by many.