NYS’s (version of EPA): let’s shut down Indian Point… raise CO2, raise electric rates…

NYS wants to shut down Indian Point. Today’s excuse: for the fish.

Indian Point is a complex of two nuclear power plants about 25 miles north of NYC. It supplies roughly one quarter of the baseload power to that area.
NYS Governor Cuomo is on very solid record as wanting to shut it down.

While I’m no friend of the Entergy Corporation which owns it, and clearly has an interest to keep it running, they’re absolutely right that shutting it down would mean a dramatic increase in electrical costs and CO2 emissions (for those who care about either of those issues). The DEC wants to close it for three summertime months (the area is, of course, a summer peaking electric demand zone) in order to reduce the number of fish killed at the intake pipes.

– from one of those background papers and regulations that gov’t agencies love to type up and implement before anyone notices…

[NYS Dep’t of Environmental Conservation]

“The FPOD options discussed in this fact sheet span a minimum of 42 days to
a maximum of 92 days at one or both IPEC Units with outages being taken
between May 10 and August 10 each calendar year for the proposed 20-year NRC
relicensing period.”


Good article in City and State (watch for line wrap):


11 responses to “NYS’s (version of EPA): let’s shut down Indian Point… raise CO2, raise electric rates…

  1. Perfect Progressive liberal logic – it will cost us jobs and standard of living but it will get me far left E=GREEN money and support in my re election bid?

    ECO WHORE TERM COMES TO MIND = SCREW THE POOR AND ELDERLY NO A/C AND NO HEAT. OK with me I live in Texas and we have our own electric grid and export energy.

  2. This is environmentalism at its extreme ludicrously. Save fish and kill people. Add more CO2 into the atmosphere, eh? Brilliant, just brilliant. What might be the economic costs of this – what is the economic loss for less fish per year compared to loss of health for millions and jobs for thousands. Luddites and Malthusians have been trying to kill jobs and lessen our life spans for years now, and here is one great way to do it. This points out as well the sheer hypocrisy of the elites controlling the progressive movement in this country, their prime victims are the very electorate they claim to support, the most needy among us.

  3. My father worked on Indian Point during a shut-down back in the 80s. Sorry to hear the EPA is about to louse things up for people there.

  4. Seems like a case of the ‘Excluded Middle’. .. There may be another option: install a fine mesh barrier (or other mechanism) to stop fish getting close to the power station. That way everybody can be happy. No lose of power or fish, and no increase in electrical costs or CO2 emissions.

    • Oops.. Make that ‘loss’, instead of ‘lose’. :)

      • They’ve been using filters on the intake water ever since they built the first plant. I’m not sure (but people Way Above My Pay Grade no doubt have tried figuring this out) they can’t (for example) quadruple the size of the intakes – which would reduce the “suction” effect.

  5. Replace nuclear with gas in a state that won’t allow fracking of a rich gas reserve? It takes years to permit and build new generating capacity in states that are not opposed to new power sources. Gas turbine generators are not exactly off the shelf items. I’m all for cutting NYC’s supply by 25% and having Cuomo tell them what a great environmental deal it is. However, that’s not what will happen. The market price of gas and electricity will go up because of the new demand and we all get to pay for NY to be green. I bet the peaking power folks are sending Cuomo campaign contribution’s for this. Heck, the NY decision might even get the oil plants that run at $300 MWh more operating days.

    • Bob, are you familiar with the NYS’s “auction system” for pricing the wholesale power? Short version: _everyone_ of the bidders gets the _highest priced_ offer. So (keeping this simple) there are ten bidders, with the first at $0.05 (five cents) per kw-hr, the fifth at $0.90, the tenth at $5.75, (plus an 11th through 20th, but we don’t need them…), then _all_ ten of them, including the $0.05 tender, get $5.75.
      If we only needed to get to number 9, who was (let’s say) $4.25, we’d save $1.50 on ALL the power.
      Hence the very, very, big incentives by the utilities to get users to cut back demand at 3 pm on hot summer days, and payments for “negawatts”. And if you’re a facility with an emergency generator (say a hospital), they’ll pay you plenty to turn it on and cut yourself from the grid on those hot afternoons.

      • It’s pretty much the same system used by PJM (Pennsylvania-Jersey-Maryland authority that controls from northern NC to Michigan). You bid in, and if picked up (dispatched) you are paid at the highest bidder price. Or, you can be dispatched without bidding, usually only if the price is above your entry price. If you are a dispatchable asset your ops center should be in constant contact with PJM (our midnight guy took the cordless phone to the potty). Prices fluctuate by the minute. The lowest I’ve seen was -$1100/MWh (you pay to stay on the grid) and the highest was ~$2700/MWh. They can dispatch anyone on the grid or prevent their dispatch.
        If you are generating using oil then your unit is in the range of 9500 Btu/KW heat rate, or ~$240/MWh just for fuel costs. So, when they are turning on the emergency generators, the price of electricity is pretty steep.
        The grid supply/demand is balanced on price, making it worth your while to conserve during peak periods. However, if the demand in NYS is enough, electricity will be sold from the outside to that market.

  6. We must use the 20 words that will change the way we live – they can close the EPA, ENDANGERED SPECIES ACT, CLEAN WATER ACT, and restore States rights and powers to handle issues for their own citizens. Bet Cuomo would not be talking this way about doubling or tripling electric rates in NY if the E=GREEN groups could not sue using the above Federal Acts which are outside Article I section 8 enumerated powers of our Constitution – therefore USURPED POWERS not given.

  7. Maybe some of this mans thinking can shed some light on this issue?


    What are the most profound life lessons from Stanford Professor John Ousterhout?
    Answer (1 of 7): These are from the Winter 2012 offering of CS140. I do not know if he used different thoughts in other lectures. Number 1: > > > > A…

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